Transcript: ICE director Todd Lyons on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," July 20, 2025

The following is the transcript of an interview with Immigration and Customs Enforcement acting director Todd Lyons that aired on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" on July 20, 2025.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Director Lyons, thank you so much for your time.

ACTING DIRECTOR OF IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT TODD LYONS: Oh, appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: You are leading the agency that is at the center of President Trump's top domestic policy agenda, immigration enforcement and cracking down on illegal immigration. How do you see Ice's role in this administration?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Well, I think, definitely, I see it as a law enforcement tool, right? So ICE is really focused on its public safety mission. I think under all administrations, that what ICE truly is, it's a law enforcement entity. And I really think right now, our main focus is public safety, and that's- that's my focus. The main focus is to keep American people safe and to enact our law enforcement mission.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: The administration has set a goal of carrying out about a million deportations per year annually. Congress just gave your agency $45 billion just to fund its detention network, and also another $30 billion to boost deportation efforts. What exactly will that money fund, and what do we expect that to look on the ground?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: On the ground, what we're really focused on is definitely hiring more in our ranks. In order to achieve the President's mission, and under Secretary Noem's vision, we definitely need more officers and agents.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Do you know how many?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: We're looking to hire about 10,000 and- but that's we've been depleted over the past four years. Our ranks have really shrunk, and we really don't have enough to do law enforcement mission. One of the big hampers for us is with the increase in sanctuary cities and sanctuary policies, we have to send more officers and agents out into the community, out on the street. Where we'd only take us two agents, say, going into a secure facility or a police station, county jail to arrest a public safety threat, well, we have to send out four to five agents, and with the increase of assaults on officers, we sometimes have to send out eight to ten just to provide security for those officers that are making the arrest. So that's one of the big things that we're looking forward to with this increased funding is increasing our manpower. Not only just officers, but our attorneys as well, to ensure that we have enough of legal support to go ahead and deal with the Department of Justice, immigration court appeals, things like that.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Detention facilities too.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Detention facility as well, yeah.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Is the goal of 1 million deportations per year now possible because of this money?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: I definitely think it's possible. One thing though, that ICE is historically known for in our mission is we detain to remove, we don't tain- detain punitively. So people do hear that increase in the bed space, but it's not for long-term. We, you know, it's- we detain people to remove them. So what we want to do, too, is focus on the removal efforts as well, because one thing we want to do is remove people in a safe, humane manner, but also efficiently as well, quickly. There's no reason for someone to linger in a detention facility after they've been lawfully ordered by immigration judge. We want to ensure that they can get back to their home country safely and quickly.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: More than a dozen individuals are facing charges for that violent attack against an ICE facility in Texas. The Department of Homeland Security, as you know, has also reported a sharp increase in attacks against your agents. What do you think is behind that?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: You know, I honestly have to say, I think it's just the increased rhetoric that we hear against ICE officers and the ICE mission. If we think back to when you and I did a ride along last year, in October. You know, you and I spent a good amount of time together observing teams in the field, and you didn't see the officers and agents that day masked up, right? You didn't see any kind of violence towards us, any protests. Even going back to January 20, beginning of this administration, up until the middle of February, you really didn't see that kind of rhetoric or violence coming against ICE officers and agents like you do now. I think the sharp increase in the rhetoric, especially from a lot of elected officials that are shaming, if you will, or speaking out against the ICE law enforcement mission, is what's really increasing these attacks on officers. And that, unfortunately, the Alvarado incident down in Prairieland, that is one that's really taken it to the next level. We've seen protests. We've seen rocks. Rocks, in itself, could be a deadly weapon, but now we have individuals laying in ambush with firearms to attack an ICE facility. Just the increase is amazing. The fact that, like you said, 830% increase from last year assaults on officers. That's what really keeps me up at night, is because we have to focus on the men and women of ICE, keeping them safe, making sure they go home to their families, our other partners, as well as the people in the community we interact with. You know, someone might interject themselves into this arrest of someone that's wanted for, say, a murder in their home country, a violent felon who has nothing to lose. And one of these people, agitators or protesters, might get involved in an ICE law enforcement arrest, and they could get injured as well. So there's a lot of factors that really come with this rhetoric against ICE officers and agents.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Do you think the increase in attacks against ICE officers is connected to the broader increase in ICE arrests across the country? Because you're seeing more arrests, you're seeing more attacks, too.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: I think we're seeing both. I think because we are more visible in the community. You know, there was- recently, people had talked about the amount of support that ICE had under President Obama. Well, during those times, we did make more custodial arrests, those arrests like you would--

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: In jails--

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: --in the jails, right? We weren't really out there. We just don't see that now with a lot of the sanctuary policies and just a lot of- lot of lack of cooperation. So you are seeing us out more, and I think there is more of a tension, kind of like you said, the immigration mission is one of the forefront of this administration, so it is a lot of scrutiny and publicity to it. So I think that's also leading to a lot of the, you know, the rhetoric, the criticism, and just a lot more of the increased violence on officers.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: And you have cited those concerns about officer safety when defending your agents wearing masks during operations. That has become a polarizing debate. What do you say, director, to the criticism that law enforcement officials, including ICE officers, should be identifying themselves, and that the use of masks could be potentially dangerous, including because it could lead to imposters posing as ICE agents.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Yeah, and that's one of our biggest concerns, and I've said it publicly before, I'm not a proponent of the masks. However, if that's a tool that the men and women of ICE to keep themselves and their family safe, then I will allow it. I do kind of push back on the criticism that they don't identify themselves. If you see a lot of the photos, like we were out that day, like I would go back to our ride along. Men and women of ICE and our DOJ partners in local law enforcement do help us. They are identified on their vest. You can see the HSI, ERO, federal police officer, FBI on the back of the vest. So I would push back on the notion that we aren't identifying themselves. Now, what I would advocate for, and I've said this many times, is I know a lot of elected officials have put forward legislation or proposed legislation about banning of the masks, things like that. I would also want, you know, elected officials to help us hold those people accountable that do doxx or threaten an ICE officer or agent or their family. I think that's key. If we- if we had that kind of support and had those laws or regulations in place, that we can hold those folks accountable to give ICE agents and officers and other law enforcement officers the peace of mind that someone that does threaten their life or their families or doxxes them will be held accountable. I think that'd go a long way.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: So you will continue to allow ICE officers to wear masks during operations.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: I will.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Okay, what is the policy regarding that? It's not mandatory.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: It's not mandatory. As you see- I don't know, I wasn't with your ride-along yesterday, but if you see some of the media coverage, there are officers and agents that don't. Recently, there's been some officers that have been interviewed by other networks who- who've talked about the fears and some of the issues with the job. So there are some that don't, but there are some that have been severely doxxed. You know, speaking from experience, last administration I had multiple protesters from antifa show up at my residence. My address has been put out there. My family's information has been put out there. So I know firsthand what these men and women go through, and it's a scary experience for someone's family, because as a law enforcement officer, you don't sign up for that. You don't bring- you don't bring the work home to your job. But when you have folks, or even elected officials saying that there's going to be no rest for an ICE officer, an agent, that we're going to expose them, you know, no rest for their family. That really concerns me.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Let's get into who ICE is arresting.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Sure.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Do you know how many of the individuals arrested by ICE are people here illegally, but who also have serious criminal records?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Yeah, we- we- like I said from the get go, and even, again, going back to when we were together in October, ICE is always focused on the worst of the worst. One difference you'll see now is under this administration, we have opened up the whole aperture of the immigration portfolio, meaning that if you're here illegally and ICE goes out and arrests someone that is released from a sanctuary jurisdiction or wanted in their home country, and an ICE officer finds other individuals with them who are in the country illegally, we're going to take them as well. We are still focused on the worst of the worst. More than half the individuals we have in custody right now have either a conviction or pending criminal charges, since they're released from a sanctuary jurisdiction. One thing, though, that I'd like to highlight is the fact that foreign criminal records aren't in U.S. data systems. So when we do go out and say, arrest someone that has an Interpol Red Notice because they're wanted in their home country, they're still a criminal, but under the American judicial state, they don't have an American criminal history, but that doesn't mean they don't have a criminal history in their home country. I think that's one of the statistic that kind of gets lost in someone and they say, well, this person is non criminal- he doesn't have a criminal history in the United States. Well, that individual can have a criminal history, say, in Brazil, Uruguay, Ukraine, Russia. So there's a lot too that goes into that, what ICE offices and agents do arrest people for.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: And you're saying that now, if your agents encounter anyone who is here illegally, irrespective of whether or not they have a criminal record, that person will be taken into custody?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: If they're here in the United States illegally, yes, they will.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: They're so-called collateral arrests.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Correct.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Okay. We just, as you mentioned, rode along with Border- not Border Patrol, but ICE agents in Maryland, and we saw the agents arresting sex offenders, suspected gang members, the individuals that the president has promised to deport from the country. He often talks about getting rid of the worst of the worst who are in the country illegally. But we have also seen ICE arrest day laborers outside of Home Depots, in some cases, farm workers, people attending their court hearings in immigration court. Is the policy still to prioritize the arrests and deportation of people who are here illegally, but also are violent offenders?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Yes, that's one thing, and that's one thing I'm extremely focused on since I became the acting director, is the fact that the president and Secretary Noem have made a promise to the American public that ICE is going to focus on the worst of the worst, and that's what we do need to focus our limited resources on. That's one thing I've always said from the start. What's, again, frustrating for me is the fact that we would love to focus on these criminal aliens that are inside a jail facility, right? A local law enforcement agency, state agency already deemed that person a public safety threat and arrested them and they're in detention. I'd much rather focus all of our limited resources on that to take them into custody, but we do have to go out into the community and make those arrests, and that's where you are seeing those increase of if we encounter someone say, that- that is here in the country illegally, we will take them into custody. In regards to the work site, like you mentioned, one thing that I'd really like to highlight, especially what kicked off June 6 in LA, is the fact that when you see ICE doing these work raids, like the marijuana grow farm, you- we are going there with criminal search warrants or criminal arrest warrants. Not only are we focused on those individuals that are, you know, working here illegally, we're focused on these American companies that are actually exploiting these laborers, these people that came here for a better life. You know, either, you know, forced labor, child trafficking, you know, a lot of these work site cases just isn't a victimless crime of someone here working illegally and that's why we're going there with these criminal warrants to focus on these American businesses that are trying to make an extra dollar on the backs of these people that came here for a better life.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: So you are planning on holding accountable the employers, the companies that are hiring people who are here illegally, not just the workers.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: 100%.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Because that has been a concern.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: It is- it is. I can definitely see that concern, but what I would say is that we have to hold these American businesses accountable, especially when it comes to human trafficking, or child trafficking, forced labor, because those are victims, right? That, you know, that's where illegal employment isn't just a victimless crime, it's a victim at the end of that being exploited. And these American companies do exploit individuals who come here illegally just to make an extra dollar, and that's just not right. We have to hold those county- companies accountable.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Should anyone here illegally now be scared of ICE agents potentially arresting them? Should that be something that they should be worried about?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: No- I- what I can- I can speak for with ICE is, we've always done targeted enforcement. That's one thing I- I always stress. You saw it when you- when you and I rode together in Baltimore last year. ICE knows who they're going after that day. There are other DHS entities, Border Patrol has a different mission, CBP has a different mission than us. I can't speak to them, but I will speak to ICE, and the fact that, when ICE does go out, the person we're looking for, it- has a criminal record, has been released from a jail, that's considered a public safety threat, or has been ordered lawfully removed from the United States by an immigration judge. That's another one of our big things as well. But again, to go back to my point earlier, if we do go out--

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Who may not be criminals, but have been ordered deported.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Yeah. Ordered deported. There are millions of people that are here in the United States that have had their due process, went through the entire immigration process, and have been lawfully ordered deported by a Department of Justice immigration judge, and have just not left the country. We are focused on them as well. But again, to go back to what I said earlier, if we go ahead and go out into the community, and we do effectuate an arrest of one of those individuals, but there might be two or three other individuals with that person that's here illegally, we're just not going to walk away like we did in the past. We are going to, you know, conduct our law enforcement mission and arrest those individuals.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: I want to read you, Director, a letter that Congressman Tony Gonzales and other Republicans wrote to you, actually. They said, "every minute that we spend pursuing an individual with a clean record is a minute less that we dedicate on apprehending terrorists or cartel operatives." Isn't that just objectively true from an operational standpoint, because you don't have the agents and facilities, perhaps, to detain everyone who is here illegally?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: I would say that. Operationally, I've always said we do have limited resources. Now we are going to get that funding with the president's Big Beautiful Bill. To the congressman, I would say that ICE is still focused on going after terrorists. We've- we've- you know, arrested over 3,000 TDA gang members, which is now a foreign terrorist organization. But much- what I would say is, much like any local law enforcement agency, if you pull somebody over in a vehicle, and that person has a misdemeanor warrant, say, or a civil warrant, that local law enforcement agency isn't going to walk away from that individual. They're going to arrest that individual. And it's the same with ICE. So while we still are going out after the rapists, murderers, terrorists, we are going to encounter individuals that are here illegally. But what I can promise is, our main focus is those public safety threats, are those national security concerns, because that's what ICE's mission is. Now we are going to encounter those other people which are listed as collaterals, but we just can't walk away from them. We need to do our law enforcement mission as well.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: You're not ignoring those cases anymore.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: No.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: On worksite enforcement, there have been some mixed messages, if you will, from the administration. Initially, there was an effective pause on arrests at hotels, restaurants, and farms. That was quickly reversed. The president has talked about, Director, giving a pass to farmers who are in the country with workers who are here illegally. What is the policy now, when it comes to immigration worksite enforcement?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Which is- kind of what I said earlier in the interview, is the fact that work- when we do a worksite enforcement, it's based on a criminal case. So ICE is still going to focus on a criminal case, whether that be, like you saw on the marijuana grow farm in California, whether it be suspected human trafficking or child forced labor, issues like that. So our policy is still, if we're going to worksite enforcement, we are focused on that criminal aspect of the investigation. So that's what ICE's policy is. I can't speak to the administration. I don't want to get ahead of the president or secretary when it comes to any type of long term immigration plan they do have for the workers, but I will say for ICE, our policy is, we're still going to build solid criminal cases on those worksites to include the businesses, and that's what we're focused on.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Including farms, hotels and restaurants?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Well, we have seen, in many instances, where certain organizations do exploit labor like that, whether it be child labor, human trafficking, things like that. We can't walk away from a criminal case when it comes to real victims there, we'll still focus on those. Now administratively, I- we're gonna focus more heavily on the criminal side of that.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: But there's no ban on enforcement operations at certain work sites?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: No. And I think, like I said, you'll see, when we show up at a work site, it's because a signed federal judge warrant has brought us there for a criminal reason.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Like in the case of the cannabis farms in California?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Correct.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: White House Deputy Chief of Staff, Stephen Miller, who plays a major role on immigration policy in this administration, has talked about ICE carrying out at least 3,000 daily arrests. Right now, you are not hitting that number. Is that target realistic? And can you get to it just by apprehending criminals?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: I- if you look at the amount of criminals that we've already arrested, I think you see we can. I think when you look at those larger numbers, when people talk about those certain goals, you have to also look at those individuals that do have those final orders of removals. Those are what we're really focused on as well. There was many people that were let in the last administration that have gone through their immigration process, who have not shown up for immigration court and have been ordered deported. We still have to focus on those. So I would still say that you're going to see what ICE resources going out daily will be still those criminal cases and those final orders.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Can you get to that 3,000 number per day?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: I think operationally, we can get to any number we set our- set our mind on. I think we just need to be limited in our scope, and use our limited resources to focus on the worst of the worst. I- you know, operationally, when we're trying to protect the American public, I can't be focused on a number. We have to be focused on, number one, getting those public safety threats and those national security threats out of the country, like we did just recently, when we arrested some of those Iranians. There were potential, known, suspected terrorists that came in on the last administration. And we also had to worry about the safety of the men and women of ICE as well. Those are the two main focus that I need to focus on, on our daily operations.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Do you know what the current daily arrest average is right now?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: I wouldn't say this daily arrest average. It just really depends on size and scope of what we're doing nationwide. It can go anywhere from 2,500 to 1,700 a day.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Got it, okay. Our colleague Margaret Brennan recently obtained ICE data showing that only a small percentage of the convicted criminals that ICE has deported over the past six months had convictions for violence offenses. For example, fewer than 1% had homicide convictions. What do you make of that data?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: What I make of that is the fact that we can't look at it just based on the violence or the propensity of violence in that crime. What I looked at is, someone has committed a crime in the United States. Now, if you look at someone that has just been arrested, say, for DUI. Well, some people might say that's only a misdemeanor. We may have prevented vehicular homicide down the road for someone that's a habitual traffic offender. I can't look at the larger scale of what specific crimes are. You know, whether it's a rape, a homicide, of course, you want to get those worst of the worst. But if someone's committed a crime here in the United States and been let back into the community, into here illegally, we need to focus on that. So what I focus on is ensuring that those individuals that have committed a crime are the first ones we're focused on, and that's who we are going to remove.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: As you know, Director, the Supreme Court recently allowed third-country deportations to continue. Should we expect those deportations to increase in the near future? And are other countries, additional nations, now stepping up and saying, I will take back people who are not my citizens?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Yeah, I would say you'd see that. But what I'd go back to is the fact that safe third-country removals has been a part of the Immigration Nationality Act for decades. This isn't something that's new, ICE has always done this, so obviously it's come to the forefront now, because, as we talked about earlier, immigration enforcement is at the forefront of the President's administration. But this has been part of the Immigration Nationality Act, which has been enacted by Congress for decades. So we've been doing this for years. That's been part of one of ICE's tools to remove individuals from these recalcitrant countries that just won't take anyone back. Prime example, if we had a country that won't take a homicide suspect back, and under the Supreme Court ruling of Zadvydas, we don't hold punitively, so we can only hold someone for six months to effectuate their removal. If their country won't take them back, we have to release this rapist and murderer back into the community. What Congress did under the Immigration Nationality Act, when enacting the Safe Third Country Agreement, gives us an option to remove these offenders back to a country that will take them.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: So you will continue those deportations.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: We will continue those deportations.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: To countries like South Sudan, for example.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Yes.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Does it make sense to send people to countries where they have no ties, though? Even if they are convicted criminals.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Well, I would say, is I- my main focus, like I said, is the safety and security in the United States. Why would we let child rapists with a propensity of violence back into the community, because their home nation won't take them, when they're not here lawfully, or they have no right to stay here. That's our focus. Is to make sure that we are removing these individuals from the country in the most effective and meaningful way that we can. And if their home country won't take them back, then we need to seek other options, other than letting them just roam in the United States.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: The Associated Press, director, just reported that ICE now has access to the personal information of millions of people enrolled in Medicaid, including names and addresses. Can you confirm that that is true? And if so, what does ICE plan to do with that information?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: You know, one thing that we have seen is the fact that under the last administration, we have so many known got-aways, or individuals that came into the United States and just totally disappeared off the grid. What ICE is doing is working with all of our other federal partners to try to gain intelligence, to locate these individuals that have been ordered deported by a judge or have been released from a sanctuary jurisdiction like we talked about. That is what ICE is using that data for, whether it be data from the Department of Labor, data from health and service- Health and Human Services, Medicaid, we are using that data to try to locate, again, the worst of the worst, those people that have been lawfully deported. So I think that's what you're going to see that data used for.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: To identify and arrest people who are here illegally.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Yes.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Let's talk about Alligator Alcatraz. Florida just opened a facility, as you know, in the Everglades, that is holding people awaiting deportation because they're here illegally. Some of them have committed crimes. How much of that facility is designed to help you operationally versus to send the message? That message being, if you're here illegally, you could potentially be sent to this scary-sounding place like Alligator Alcatraz.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: It's more of an operational. State of Florida had partnered with us for that. We had limited, we had limited space in Florida, obviously. What I would say is that we don't have the detention space capacity to remove people. Partnering with states like this definitely does help us. It is an operational need for us, is to have those partnerships with states, especially a state like Florida that does have the 287(g) agreement, where their local, State and County deputies are deputized to be ICE officers who are encountering these individuals. That definitely helps us in the- in the mission of removing individuals from the United States.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: As you underscore, there have been some growing tensions in some communities because of ICE enforcement actions. Do you think there's any way, Director, to de-escalate the situation, and can you carry out the mass deportation operation that the President has promised without losing the trust of many in the public?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: I think one of the main things for us is that open line of communication, interviews like this, actually people looking at what ICE is doing, us highlighting these criminal offenders that we are arresting. I think a key thing too, is working with elected officials to come to common ground, to really focus on the safety of neighborhoods and communities, and really focus on what ICE does in their law enforcement mission, and totally take out the rhetoric of what's being said right now, and just really focus on that ICE is a viable law enforcement partner that does a significant public safety mission for the United States. I think that's very key in keeping these open line of communications, and working with local and state government- governments and elected officials to ensure that we are removing these public safety threats from their communities.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Director, is there something I didn't ask you that you wanted to underscore?

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: No, I just really liked- appreciate you taking the time to come here, and let me highlight exactly what the ICE mission is. And I just appreciate the opportunity to have that conversation.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: All right. Thank you, Director.

ACTING DIRECTOR LYONS: Appreciate it, thanks.

• International Atomic Energy Agency